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Congregation Conversation
Sunday, 12 July 2015

ARE WE IN THE BEGINING OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
SOME WRITE THAT THE FIRST SEAL IN REVELATION CHAPTER 6 HAS BEEN OPENED.

NO WE ARE NOT IN THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD.  BECAUSE THE CHURCH OF THE REDEEMED IS STILL HERE - “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” 2 Thessalonians 2:7
                         AND
THE CHURCH DOES NOT APPEAR IN REVELATION AFTER CHAPTER 4. “AFTER this I looked (represents the time after the Churches, or in other words after the Rapture), and, behold, a door was opened in Heaven (gives John the ability to see what is taking place there): and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me (is actually the Voice of Jesus, harking back to Rev. 1:10); which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter (after the Rapture of the Church).


THE NET IS FULL OF ARTICLES AND BOOKS BY WRITERS THAT WATCH THE CURRENT HEADLINES AND TRY TO MATCH THEM WITH SCRIPTURE.  THEY TALK ABOUT THREE FUTURE WARS.

1 - A yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy in the form of a petition to God found in Psalm 83
“Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, and do not be still, O God! For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; and those who hate You have lifted up their head.  They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones.  They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more.” For they have consulted together with one consent; they form a confederacy against You: The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites; Moab and the Hagrites; Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assyria also has joined with them; they have helped the children of Lot. Selah”
    I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THIS IS A FUTURE WAR, I BELIEVE IT IS just A PRAYER BY ASAPH  FOR GOD TO JUDGE THE ENIMIES OF ISRAEL, but who says I am the final authority on this.


THE FIRST RESURECTION/RAPTURE IS THE NEXT GREAT EVENT AND IT CAN HAPPEN AT ANY TIME.

“For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”  Matthew 24:27

Revelation 20:4-6: “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Though not explicitly called “the first resurrection” in these passages, here are two other passages that speak of the event referred to as the rapture:

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1 Corinthians 15:51-54)

Even before the rapture, God can come for any one of us at any time:

 “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come…Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”  (Matthew 24:42, 44)

2  - THE WAR OF GOG/MAYGOG

3 -  ARMAGEDDON

I DO NOT BELIEVE AS I ONCE DID THAT THESE TWO EVENTS ARE ONE AND THE SAME. 
Differences between the Gog/Magog war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the battle of Armageddon (Har Megiddo):

1. Ezekiel 38-39 – God puts hooks in the jaws of Gog (probably a demon king possessing a Russian leader) to bring him down from the North against the land of Israel to take a spoil.
Armageddon – Demons come out of the mouth of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet and they deceive the kings of the earth and lead all nations to come against Jerusalem to kill all Jews and oppose Jesus at his coming (Zec 12 – 14; Rev 16:14 ; Joel 3:1) .
The nations of Ezekiel 38:1-6 are:
The Nations of Ezekiel 38: 1­ 6


The Ancient Nations                    The Modern Nations

The land of Magog                       Russia
Meshech and Tubal                      Somewhere in Russia
Persia                                             Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan 
Gomer                                            Eastern Europe
Togarmah                                       Southeastern Europe – Turkey
“Many peoples with thee”            Various other nations allied to Russia
                                                                                                       
2. Ezekiel 38-39 – Fire and earthquakes fall on the army. The weapons are knocked out of their hands. The bones of the army are buried after 7 months at a specific location by trained professionals.

Armageddon – The flesh of the armies that come against Israel are dissolved and slain from the sword of the mouth of Jesus. There is no mention of any burial of the bones.

3. Ezekiel 38-39 – The army falls on the northern mountains of Israel they never reach Jerusalem.—–
Armageddon – The army falls in the valley of Jehoshaphat (Joel 3:2) and blood runs up to the horses bridles the length of Israel (Rev 14:20).

4. Ezekiel 38-39 – Occurs when Israel is living securely in peace and safety with none to make them afraid.
Armageddon – Occurs at the end of the tribulation when Israel has already fled to the mountains of Jordan for protection from the Antichrist.

5. Ezekiel 38-39 – Some nations aligned with the West protest the invasion and obviously are not involved.
Armageddon – All nations are involved.

6. Ezekiel 38-39 – No mention of a religious or spiritual figures it just mentions Gog, men and nations.
Armageddon – Occurs after Satan is cast out of heaven unto the earth and the incarnated Beast Antichrist and his False prophet visibly reign upon earth.

7. Ezekiel 38-39 – 1/6 of the army survives and is driven north into Russia.
Armageddon – The whole army is destroyed.

8. Ezekiel 38-39 – The nations immediately surrounding Israel are not included
Armageddon – The nations around Israel are said to be included.

9. Ezekiel 38-39 – The world acknowledges that the God of Israel destroyed the invaders and God of Israel is magnified in the eyes of the nations.
Armageddon – The world thinks the Antichrist is God and dares to come to battle against the God of Israel and His coming King that everyone on the earth has have been clearly told is coming at this point.

10. Ezekiel 38-39 – The purpose is to bring Israel to repentance so that they acknowledge their God and so God can display and magnify Himself in the eyes of all the nations.
Armageddon – The purpose is to deliver Israel from the Beast, bring judgment on the Beast and the False Prophet and all the Gentiles armies that follow them. They will not have Jesus  reign as King on earth so they will be destroyed by Jesus at His coming.

11. Ezekiel 38-39 – No prior signs are mentioned Israel is living securely
Armageddon – Occurs after wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The moon is turned blood red and the sun is darkened and people fear what they see coming upon the earth.
12.  Ezekiel 38-39 – the leader of the armies name is Gog, the name adds up to 12 in Hebrew Armageddon – The Beast is the leader his name adds up to 666.

Many people equate the two, or include the first as part of the second. But there are many differences that make these conclusions quite improbable.
First there is the time element involved. While no time is specified for the Battle of Gog and Magog, most evangelical, premillennial, pre-Tribulational scholars place it at or near the beginning of the Tribulation.
The Battle of Armageddon takes place at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 16:16; 19:11-21).

Second, the participants of the conflicts are different. In the Battle of Gog and Magog, a great power to the north (possibly Russia or one or more former “southern-tier” Islamic Soviet republics) will move against Israel, along with specific nations, mostly Islamic and in the Middle East or northern Africa (Ezekiel 38:1-6). The Battle of Armageddon will include representative armies from all nations of the world (Joel 3:2; Zechariah 14:2).

Third is the direction of the attack. Since the Battle of Gog and Magog is led by a great power to the north of Israel, and some of its allies are from that direction as well, the attack will come primarily from the north (Ezekiel 38:15). Since the Battle of Armageddon involves all the nations of the world, they will come from all four directions.

Fourth, there is the purpose for the attack. The Battle of Magog’s objective is “To take a spoil, and to take a prey” (Ezekiel 38:12). Perhaps some of the attackers, several of which are virtually landlocked, will seek a warm-water port in Israel. Others may seek some of Israel’s mineral deposits, such as are purported to be in the Dead Sea. At Armageddon, the intent is to totally eliminate Israel once and for all (Zechariah 12:2-3) and later, to oppose Christ Himself who returns to fight on behalf of Israel (Revelation 19:19).

Fifth, the leaders of the attack are also different. At Gog and Magog, the leader will be Russia or another former Soviet republic (Ezekiel 38:3). At Armageddon, it will be the Antichrist, who, by that time, will be the undisputed world leader (Revelation 19:19).

Finally, the casualties will be disposed of differently. At Gog and Magog, the dead will be buried (Ezekiel 39:12-15). At Armageddon, the dead will be left on the field of battle, to become food for birds of prey (Revelation 19:17-21).

However, despite all of these differences, we should point out one similarity, and that is the outcome. In both cases, God will win and will gain victory on behalf of His people, Israel. After the great victory at Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 39:1-7), one would think that the unregenerate world would get the message. But only a few years later, on an even larger scale, the world will again gather its forces against Israel and against the Lord at Armageddon. The old adage will be proven again: the one thing people learn from history, is that they don’t learn from history.


Posted by rjlo at 2:41 PM EDT
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